DALE SYROTA

The Most Important Interview Question Of All Time

My interview response is about a new employee induction program called The Green Hat Program, that I developed and used at a previous employer. Its use can change a company culture and make for much happier, safer, and productive employees. It had the added benefit of saving almost $20M in employee turnover costs.

Might a similar powerful program be of assistance to you? Dale Syrota and 

The Twenty Questions

1. Lou: Dale, what single project or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your career so far?

Dale: Lou, I have achieved a number of things that I would consider significant accomplishments. What one might consider the most significant is situational. We tend to be judged on what we have done over the last several years. So, I will direct my answer to one of the most recent.

I developed a success based, new employee, training program that we call the 'Green Hat Program.' The program was based on values-centred-learning, using advanced psychological learning methods, that I had either developed or became privy to, in my research into human psychology.

In this program new employees learnt a set of skills that build upon past learning until they master the required skills that drive what is referred to as a generative or a high reliability safety culture. A high reliability safety culture centres around employees that are fully aware of their performance needs and are engaged at a level that affects safety to be sure, but also has a significant, positive impact on quality and productivity. They learnt transferable high reliability skills. If an employee can find and solve a safety issue, they can use the same skills to find and solve quality, customer service and productivity issues. It becomes a way of work, rather than a job that requires one to work a certain way; often a way that is not congruent with the employee’s basic philosophy.

2. Lou: Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment?

Dale: Preventing injury is about people working within a culture where mastery, autonomy and purpose are integral within the day-to-day way of work; a culture where every employee is engaged every day because they want to be.

My program was based on these principles. My introduction to this culture started on day one of new hire orientation. Every employee went through it whether they were a technician, engineer, office worker, managerial leader or a temporary employee.

The company I worked for has developed two practices that have impacted on safety significantly. The practices are pre-meeting value moments and a health, safety and environment deployment strategy.

As I explained the value moment ideology and the HSE deployment strategies program, I explained how our brain learns through the emotional aspect of internally valued facts, along with their repetition. I wrote a book on how and why we are successful. I used much of the knowledge that I present in the book as I go through an explanation on the impact of value moments and the deployment strategy within the company.

I discussed the strategic deployment strategy explaining that a large company following a hierarchical deployment structure (the line of command) have plans that change with each level of the structure both up and down, and the delays inherent within that type of system. I explained that the company’s deployment method of a basic plan structure, is sent out each year to the company subject matter experts to create a plan that goes into a white paper that is delivered to all managers. It is monitored by those same subject matter experts. Change that would take up to a year in many larger corporations can take place in a matter of weeks with that deployment strategy.

I developed an advanced awareness technique I call, 'parent/child' awareness', where employees are able to see risk from a highly critical perspective; from a different level of awareness. Employees are introduced (in orientation) to a simplified risk assessment process, through the perceived situational process of frying an egg (as incredible as that sounds) that looks at steps, hazards, with severity and probability both before and after controls. This parent/child method shift in awareness allows for much ‘out of the box’ awareness. I also introduced a systemic personal situational analysis process that the employee will adopt and use in all observational processes, that I call the 'UB4I,' and the '5¢ Check.' techniques that began to focus systemic employee risk-observation-skills.

In this training, I touched on the several courses of the Green Hat Program, that they needed to master in order to be able to wear the company preferred, red hard hats, when they complete the training. Over the ensuing three months of the mastery process, I had employees create a proper risk assessment of a task assigned by their supervisor, and a risk assessment for a safety improvement project that they were required to find and complete. Risk reduction competency-skill is an expectation for every employee.

The program was not single units, rather it incorporated actions that they overlaid with previous learning to develop a deeper and deeper understanding of safety and how to be successful in its application.

When complete, an employee could ensure they are safe as they observed a process or task, observed and discussed safe and at-risk behaviours observed in others, and ultimately in themselves. They could and did find hazards and determined hazard risk, categorised risk levels, identified possible improvement ideas, and applied a process to resolve the risk by the implementation of the identified ideas in a program I named' My Safe Idea.' They got credit for the risk assessment and the continuous improvement idea.

Often employees and employers pay lip-service to WHMIS. Our Green Hats, after taking a WHMIS course, they found a controlled chemical in their work space, determined the risks involved, compared it to the way it is being used, and presented their findings to their work group.

3. Lou: Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and the team involved.

Dale: The company I worked for is a drilling services business for owners of oil fields. Our division, a product group within those services, actually performs the drilling. The technology arm, of our division, created mechanical integration drilling solutions so our customers could solve oil field production problems. If these solutions weremore than a one-time effort our manufacturing arm created drilling tools to exploit that service need.

At the facility where I worked, we had the most advance drilling solution, test facility, on the planet. We tested tools on multiple above ground platforms rather than with the tradition in ground testing methods. Tool failure can cost many millions of dollars so the manufacturing expertise is in quality tool assembly, not in the actual cutting of metal. Our tools seldom fail and our facility has the lowest failure rates in the business.

I was hired by the company as the HSE Manager, to manage the program and coach the Nisku Manufacturing and World Class Technology Centre leadership team, and shop floor management. My manager wanted to ensure implementation and ongoing improvement of effective health and safety processes and outcomes, and to adopt the Corporate Health and Safety System.

The corporation had acquired the drilling tool company just a few years prior to my arrival. To effectively utilise the world’s most advanced down-hole directional drilling tools in other locations worldwide, the corporation separated the manufacturing and technology group from the drilling operations side of the business. Manufacturing and technology became part of the massive Supply Chain Group.

In spite of the reporting separation, the Nisku manufacturing and technology team clung desperately to the Nisku operations group. The operations group were also having difficulties adopting the corporate health and safety system. There was a culture of safety complacency imbedded throughout the Nisku campus. People were being hurt and that needed to change. I can say the Nisku manufacturing and technology team has truly become an integral part of the Corporation’s Supply Chain, and safety is now paramount.

I promised the company one year. That became eight years. My Green Hat project started about three years before I left as a simple training program. With the integration of human psychology and high reliability culture aspects, it grew to become a significant culture change methodology.

4. Lou: What were the actual results achieved?

Dale: Buy in was huge. We virtually eliminated an employee turnover issue and had reduced first aid incidents by about 50 per cent. We had had no significant injuries after the program started. But those are just asides. The Green Hat Program was more about commitment and culture. We had more and more safety projects being completed. We achieved higher quality behaviour observations. To measure culture we used employee surveys and had made significant progress in that area. We moved from a calculative level to a proactive level of safety culture in the last year I was there. Results were highly intrinsic and most often were shown through personal discussion or round tables.  Such learning impacted change on a large scale in terms of quality, productivity, cost and customer service. Green Hats became a member of the Nisku manufacturing team.

The Green Hat Program had multiple performance measures that employees must achieve so it had built in results. The achievements were primarily hands-on such as performing a behaviour-based safety observation with only minor knowledge based courses an example being, finding your way through our health and safety handbook. Employees were doing things that were previously the purview of the supervisor; the things that have great need but for which supervisors customarily had little time. Because it was a grassroots employee supported program, it was an easy sell to the employees.  It was being touted as a best practice for manufacturing.

5. Lou: When did it take place and how long did the project take.

Dale: I am a firm believer in continuous improvement. It is a never ending process. The initial green hat process, based on training that I provided, took about three months to develop and to see results (graduates). It had seen several improvements. Originally designed about three years ago as a program to give our employees a basic level of safety competency, it developed into a sophisticated change tool with much iteration over the last two years of my employment. For a new company to integrate it into their operations, I figure it would take eight to twelve months.

6. Lou: Why you were chosen?

Dale: My manager and I were discussing how we could improve our safety program to align more with the corporate dive relating to new employee orientation. Many of our employees filtered through one department and he wanted to see more support and structure in what our new employees were being taught by our supervisor team. High turnover was affecting performance. He simply asked if I could create such a program. 

Much of it I was doing anyway as I was the training go-to person. I am a subject matter expert for much of what I taught, and much of what I had developed was based on my analysis of issues. As a manager, it was my responsibility to provide required program needs and to analyse and to improve HSE on an ongoing basis.

I believe that my original hiring manager liked my HSE, employee training and adult education experience, my program development skills, and my Lean manufacturing knowledge and expertise. In addition, I was the only incumbent that chose an in-person interview, and I made an effort to come to Alberta from BC for the interview. I think that showed my commitment. The final turning point seemed to be that I observed my interviewer’s pain related to injuries, and I was able to understand and outwardly relate to his pain and frustrations.

7. Lou: What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal with them?

Dale: The Green Hat Program was not a corporate mandate so I needed to muster our leadership to understand the value that a program such as this could bring to our team and get them behind it. Not every manager is committed to safety as a value to the same degree. I had to show them how the mastery and autonomy that I was building into the program would actually support improved performance in other areas.

That hurtle met, I needed to train our group leaders in the program and what they needed to do to support it. They saw the value in such a program quickly but being busy people, I needed to make it easy for them support it. I created a SharePoint site that they were able to use to track performance and completion.

Because it wasn’t mandated, it was a challenge to keep it a priority as it had yet to become a value. To build momentum at safety meetings, I made it a topic of discussion. We recognised graduates in the safety meetings. They were given a certificate, a T-Shirt, and of course, the oil worker’s style red hard hat. I created posters and sent out newsletters informing everyone on how we were performing.

8. Lou: Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative?

Dale: I knew to create change in an organisation, you not only need support from the plant leadership and the shop floor leaders, you also need support from the floor. I chose several of the employees that were influencers to sit on a culture committee with a mandate to provide continuous improvement and to support the program. I knew that if I could get those influencers to see the value of the program it would take on more of a grassroots approach. 

This was a very different and new approach to management, and seen by some as upsetting the status quo and as threatening. There was resistance but after several discussions, the leadership team began to see the value in getting that grassroots support and the power of change in the method.

9. Lou: Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was successful.

Dale: First and foremost, I am a strategist. I know that when you hire on a new person, they are open to the way that the organisation works. If you want to introduce change (as I wanted to introduce a culture where mastery, autonomy and purpose are integral within the day-to-day way of work; a culture where every employee is engaged every day because they want to be), then the time to do this is when the new employee arrives, and he or she is the most responsive to a way of work.

I talked about a few specifics on how I managed it in a few of the questions I have already answered. On a strategic level, my ideology follows Shell Oil’s Hearts and Minds program. It is situational and requires interpretation of the current state. The activity requires one to monitor the change in value through surveys or roundtable discussions. Program management required us to ask how we were doing and what we needed to do to improve further. Green Hat outcomes were part of those discussions.

Was the Green Hat Program successful? Before the program started, we had a large turnover of technicians. They generally moved through one department in particular. The levels of activity needed to support these new employees were beyond the capabilities of the department. They needed help.

I realised the standardised training that a Green Hat Program would bring could relieve much of the issues within the department. Employees would begin to see themselves as part of team by mastering the requirements. Incidents and injuries would go down as people would begin to follow the same methods. Employees would be happier and turnover would be reduced.

I am happy to report that turnover at our site in all areas had dropped dramatically. Where I was looking at providing new orientation training of four to five people a week that changed to where I could now go several weeks without doing any new hire orientation. I calculated about $20M in annual employee turnover cost savings.

10. Lou: Describe the environment and resources.

Dale: Being a subject matter expert often means you are the go-to resource. That is a double-edged sword. You have much freedom to affect change but have a high demand on your time. I used corporate resources from time to time but for the most part, it was a closed environment. I got great support from the leadership team as they have learned to trust my ideas, methods, and recommendations. The corporation was undergoing much change and we were seeing a high degree of growth, especially at our site. This was placing a high degree of stress on the system as staffing needs were being addressed slowly with apprehension.

11. Lou: Describe your manager’s style and whether you liked it or not.

Dale: I had had three managers in the past seven and a half years at our Company. Each manager was different and each one had a unique style.

My hiring manager was brought in from the supply chain management program to make change within the Nisku operations. He had specific changes he wanted to see such as having an occupational nursing program. It wasn’t a requirement but he saw great value in the health aspect that a site nurse would bring. He would share his vision and I would create and execute a plan to achieve results. He would periodically see how my plan was working, talk about the issues, then leave me free to do what was needed. He was well versed in the corporate vision of environment, health and safety. He preferred to have the main idea, the main idea. He liked to see a program supported to completion before embarking on other programs.

When my hiring manager left, he promoted a manager who had superlative technical expertise but had a long history with the Nisku organisation. It was a bit of a challenge to get him to see the Corporate HSE vision but once that was achieved, we were able to do marvellous things as a team. I would lay out what the corporation wanted and discuss methods to achieve the change needed. He would lead or drive the team in support of the activities that we needed to achieve. There was great trust between us. He was promoted recently to lead the division’s largest manufacturing plant in the US.

My second manager promoted an employee who was also in the supply chain management program. This third manager had been primarily focussed on learning and making change in purchasing and materials planning, and there had been little focus on HSE. To climb the corporate ladder in the company you must first and foremost be committed to safety. He took that challenge head on. He was personally involved in leading change in safety, taking on projects and driving them to completion. He seemed to be more of a do as I do leader, until you will do it on your own. He was beginning to understand the immensity of the HSE requirement and what is being asked of him. I cannot help but admire the change in focus and his commitment to make safety a value.

12. Lou: Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and how they were used.

Dale: The technical skills needed to champion such a program are in the area primarily of understanding organisational and human change. In terms of hard skills, one needs to understand how to use the technology of communication; emails, posters, handouts, computer filing system, and training sites. To affect change, one needs to understand the technology that revolves around understanding internal human values, what the current state of culture is, and what a future state of the culture wanted will look like, and the strategic and tactical skills to make needed or perceived change happen.

13. Lou: Some of the biggest mistakes you made.

Dale: No plan is perfect and mistakes are inevitable. The problem is that to prevent a mistake, we would need absolute power over all things and absolute insight into the future consequences of our decisions. Knowing what I know now, what would I do differently? I would delight in doing this again and see real value in another group or company adopting such a program. I would summarise what I learned from introducing the program, and sell the new team on the features, advantages and benefits. I would involve them to a much greater degree upfront.

14. Lou: Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed.

Dale: Smiles! There is nothing I find more enjoyable than seeing an employee smile when they realise they have mastered course requirements and received that red hard hat! They were part of an elite group that are competent in the safe way they work.

I found program design most enjoyable. One of my strengths is root cause analysis. I look at why things work and why things fail. I then design a program that reflects improved outcomes. Taking information and forming it into a program that people can use to be more successful is a big driver for me. The Green Hat Program provided such activities.

15. Lou: Aspects you didn’t especially care about and how you handled them.

Dale: Once a program is working, I like to hand over operation and maintenance to others who would prefer to administer it. I do that as soon as possible. The best way to do that is to get people involved early, and show them how that competency will help them move ahead.

16. Lou: How you managed and influenced others, with lots of examples.

Dale: It goes back to observing joy and frustration. I do root cause on both. Most people just focus on the negative or frustrating issues. I have a high level of understanding of internal motivation and success or failure drivers. As I alluded to earlier, I can see the big picture and what impacts certain actions will have. Sharing this knowledge goes a long way to getting people onside.

As a Lean manager and an adult education instructor, I learned to use an acronym, Why Hook 73. If you know why something needs to be done, you can be motivated to learn seven chunks of information if you repeat it three times. In my book, GOING FREE, I call this process Power Chunking.

I normally approach people with a concept that I want to initiate and discuss with them. I get them to argue the pros and cons. It gets them interested. Once interested, I get a small commitment from them, even if it is just the option of discussing the proposition again. As I discuss the idea further, I add more and more context; more and more chunks of information; and get more and more buy in.

I did this for the original concept, with an explanation brochure, with the content of the program, with the content of classes within the program, and even the rewards for class achievement.

17. Lou: How you were managed, coached, and influenced by others, with lots of examples.

Dale: Rather than the popular belief, that being managed is about being directed what to do, I find being managed to be a two-way street; to be more of a conversation. It is about listening, discussing, getting clarification, understanding why or the importance of an issue. All of us have values and beliefs. They are neither right nor wrong, just the sum of the information we have been privileged to retain; they can be and are often influenced. They absolutely have value.

Because I do not believe that people are right or wrong, I can be open to all information. I have been influenced by top level managers and by the guy on the floor. All we have to do is become more aware and have a belief that everything can be improved. The examples I discussed above are relevant to this question, too.

Perhaps I can sum up my thoughts on being managed or managing through my favourite saying from Viktor Frankl, who extoled that between stimulus and response is a space and in that space is a choice. In that choice is your power and freedom. In other words we can decide how we see that stimulus and give it meaning that helps us move forward.

18. Lou: How you changed and grew as a person.

Dale: I see being a part of any action where people are involved as a privilege. I am creating something this very moment (this document) that was impacted by this program, and I believe that this interaction will have a major impact upon my future. Being a student of the mind, I know that I can learn from every interaction. I have learned that other organisations can achieve similar results. I know that I can provide them with a valuable level of expertise.

19. Lou: What you would do differently if you could do it again.

Dale: Arm chair quarter-backing from the rear-view mirror sounds good in practice but as a mentor, Tony Robbins would say, the past does not equal the future. But, now that I have created a program, I can just as easily create it again. That more or less is the reason for this question and answer session; to spark interested in making significant changes in a company; to create a Green Hat program; with my help, of course.

To answer your question, now that I have a history, I can share the information and the program with others and get that buy in upfront. I would have all leaders, managers, supervisors and shop floor leads complete the program before their new hires did. I would also select six influencing non-hierarchical informal shop floor leaders who would become Gold Hand Mentors. These six people would complete the program then I would work with them to mentor new employees through the Green Hat Program. I would teach these mentors how to teach using TWI’s Job Instruction Training as part of their competency program. Eventually, when all Gold Hands can teach the entire program I would hand it off to them. I would attempt to work myself out of a job.

20.Lou: What type of formal recognition did you receive?

Dale: Nothing formal. It was being touted as a best practice. Other facility managers contacted me about the program. That is all the recognition I need. Remember, Lou, I am the one that gives meaning to a stimulus or a lack of stimulus.

My company had developed an awards based, formal recognition system that leaders could use to recognise good behaviours from their subordinates, but it had yet to be integrated as a true value. They primarily used it at the shop floor level but with little continuity. Unfortunately, there was a tendency to see things of this nature at the manager level as part of the job. That is why I would have them complete the program before they introduced it to the floor.

Lou, to have a company hire me to champion such a program would be a great form of personal recognition.

Do you want to know more about this safety project or about me? This program is a game changer. Feel free to drop me a line on the contact page. I’ll leave you with this one thought.

A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way. -John C. Maxwell

Thank you for taking the time to read about this program. Good luck and learn to work safe. Dale Syrota

Note: Any opinions are my own, and do not reflect any organization I am or wasaffiliated with. If you like what I have to say just leave a note on my contact page.

Contact Dale